Was Galileo an expert at conformity?

[Noojaras]

He is famous for dissent, but it's doubtful that he was always pursuing the truth. Wouldn't dissent have gotten him into trouble when he was a young student, and prevented him from obtaining the credentials that gave him the opportunity to pursue the truth?

It would surprise me if Galileo had discovered the truth while he was merely trying to conform. However, given his interests, and the time and effort that he devoted to his unorthodox research, his creative accomplishments don't seem particularly noteworthy.

I would like to compare him to an athlete competing at the Olympics. What makes an Olympic Gold Medalist unusual? The number of competitors is relatively small. If there were only enough lottery tickets to give one ticket to every athlete competing in a particular event at the Olympics, then the odds of winning such a lottery would be pretty good. What deserves attention isn't winning such a lottery, but having a ticket. The major leap isn't from Olympic competitor to Olympic Gold medalist. The major leap is from random member of the general public to competitor in the Olympics.

Following this train of thought, I see conformity as Galileo's main claim to fame. I would like to know how he acquired his expertise at conformity. I would like to see a series of lectures to help others acquire that kind of expertise. Without that expertise, many people don't have a ticket. Without a ticket, they can't win.

[xedniw]

Galileo's father, Vincenzo Galilei, was on of the inventors of opera.

[cornermouse]

I'll disagree with this one. You have to be able to think outside the box to make the discoveries he made. Thinking outside the box doesn't go well with conformity.

[Noojaras]

(07-15-2012 01:36 AM)cornermouse Wrote:  You have to be able to think outside the box to make the discoveries he made.

I agree.

(07-15-2012 01:36 AM)cornermouse Wrote:  Thinking outside the box doesn't go well with conformity.

Could you explain what you mean by "doesn't go well with"? Are you suggesting that if a person did eventually think outside the box, then we have reason to believe that the person always lacked expertise at conformity?

Maybe Gorbachev is a better example than Galileo, since Galileo is used as a symbol and few people know much about the details of his actual life. Gorbachev, like Galileo, succeeded in earning formal education credentials. Gorbachev also rose to the highest political position in a country that had an official political ideology and political prisoners.

Do you think it is likely that Gorbachev would have been brought into the Politburo through the personal influence of Andropov (appointed in 1967 as head of the KGB!) if Gorbachev had shown any signs of thinking like a dissident?

Quote:Andropov aimed to achieve "the destruction of dissent in all its forms" and always insisted that "the struggle for human rights was a part of a wide-ranging imperialist plot to undermine the foundation of the Soviet state".

From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Androp...of_the_KGB

On the other hand, comparing the USSR under Gorbachev as General Secretary to the USSR under General Secretaries Leonid Brezhnev, Yuri Andropov, and Konstantin Chernenko, would you not say that, as General Secretary, Gorbachev was thinking outside the box?

[cornermouse]

(07-15-2012 08:25 AM)Noojaras Wrote:  

(07-15-2012 01:36 AM)cornermouse Wrote:  You have to be able to think outside the box to make the discoveries he made.

I agree.

(07-15-2012 01:36 AM)cornermouse Wrote:  Thinking outside the box doesn't go well with conformity.

Could you explain what you mean by "doesn't go well with"? Are you suggesting that if a person did eventually think outside the box, then we have reason to believe that the person always lacked expertise at conformity?

Maybe Gorbachev is a better example than Galileo, since Galileo is used as a symbol and few people know much about the details of his actual life. Gorbachev, like Galileo, succeeded in earning formal education credentials. Gorbachev also rose to the highest political position in a country that had an official political ideology and political prisoners.

Do you think it is likely that Gorbachev would have been brought into the Politburo through the personal influence of Andropov (appointed in 1967 as head of the KGB!) if Gorbachev had shown any signs of thinking like a dissident?

Quote:Andropov aimed to achieve "the destruction of dissent in all its forms" and always insisted that "the struggle for human rights was a part of a wide-ranging imperialist plot to undermine the foundation of the Soviet state".

From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Androp...of_the_KGB

On the other hand, comparing the USSR under Gorbachev as General Secretary to the USSR under General Secretaries Leonid Brezhnev, Yuri Andropov, and Konstantin Chernenko, would you not say that, as General Secretary, Gorbachev was thinking outside the box?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei
"In September 1632, Galileo was ordered to come to Rome to stand trial, where he finally arrived in February 1633. Throughout his trial Galileo steadfastly maintained that since 1616 he had faithfully kept his promise not to hold any of the condemned opinions, and initially he denied even defending them. However, he was eventually persuaded to admit that, contrary to his true intention, a reader of his Dialogue could well have obtained the impression that it was intended to be a defence of Copernicanism. In view of Galileo's rather implausible denial that he had ever held Copernican ideas after 1616 or ever intended to defend them in the Dialogue, his final interrogation, in July 1633, concluded with his being threatened with torture if he did not tell the truth, but he maintained his denial despite the threat.[58] The sentence of the Inquisition was delivered on June 22. It was in three essential parts:

Galileo was found "vehemently suspect of heresy", namely of having held the opinions that the Sun lies motionless at the centre of the universe, that the Earth is not at its centre and moves, and that one may hold and defend an opinion as probable after it has been declared contrary to Holy Scripture. He was required to "abjure, curse and detest" those opinions.[59]
He was sentenced to formal imprisonment at the pleasure of the Inquisition.[60] On the following day this was commuted to house arrest, which he remained under for the rest of his life.
His offending Dialogue was banned; and in an action not announced at the trial, publication of any of his works was forbidden, including any he might write in the future.[61]"
---------------------------
I"m not going to get into Gorbachev or anyone else. I have other things I need to do today.