Southern Values Revived

[PassionateProgressive]

Sara Robinson's Southern Values Revived describes an America originally dominated by two types of aristocrats: a northern - driven by noblesse oblige to use their wealth for the common good in forms of public education, health care, common areas, etc. and a southern aristocracy from which the plantation symbolized a way of life reliant on anti-intellectualism and hierarchical, patriarchal relations of which terror and brute force were a dominant part. The tensions between the two versions of America were was played out initially in the Civil War but were never resolved.

Typically, former presidents (the Roosevelts, Kennedy, Wilson, Bush senior as examples) were from the northern aristocratic families. But in the aftermath of WWII southern migrants spread to the West. Jobs in the defense industries buoyed economic recovery of the US and the Republican Party, starting with Barry Goldwater and continuing through Ronald Reagan became dominated by the southern plantation mentality. Robinson mentions the purge of RINO's from the Party - (more than likely they migrated to the Democratic Party).

Robinson's insightful article paints an informative but dismal picture of America's decline through a cultural lens. Very much worth a read.

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/01/southern...singleton/

[ecarina]

I read this over at Alternet the other day- though I hasten to add that Ms. Robinson is far from the first person to point the dichotomy out. What's impressive is how persistent the regressive socio-political culture of the antebellum south has been, particularly when compared and contrasted with the often dramatic progress in other nations around the world.

This despite (or perhaps because of) the continuing impoverishment of the region. It's almost as if the white majority are collectively saying "we like being poor, mean, unhealthy and stupid."

[PassionateProgressive]

(07-03-2012 09:20 PM)ecarina Wrote:  I read this over at Alternet the other day- though I hasten to add that Ms. Robinson is far from the first person to point the dichotomy out. What's impressive is how persistent the regressive socio-political culture of the antebellum south has been, particularly when compared and contrasted with the often dramatic progress in other nations around the world.

This despite (or perhaps because of) the continuing impoverishment of the region. It's almost as if the white majority are collectively saying "we like being poor, mean, unhealthy and stupid."

Very appropriate characterization - persistent and regressive. Although Robinson characterizes the South as somewhat techno-phobic - i.e., why have machines when we can have slave labor from prisoners and/or Africans - it seems to me that the more that the US as a whole has progressed technologically, the more it regresses in the humanities...

I do have close relatives in the south - but the culture and racism there do bother me....and the way that I have seen animals treated - dogs don't go in the house but stay outside in a dog house...I probably just don't know the south well enough. But stagnation is also a word that comes to mind.

[ecarina]

(07-03-2012 10:52 PM)PassionateProgressive Wrote:  ...stagnation is also a word that comes to mind.

Gavin Stevens expressed in in William Faulkner's Requiem for a Nun thusly: In the South: "The past is never dead. It’s not even past." (albeit for a bit of a different reason in the story).

Not sure about the technophobia bit. The cotton gin did well enough- and people do love their muscle cars, air cons and washing machines. More like science phobic.

Like you, I have relatives throughout the south, including a progressive sister in North Carolina (which has been getting embarrassing press over here for legislating against the sea level rising).

For years decades she's been insisting that the south (North Carolina in particular) is "changing," but every time I look (or visit) there sure doesn't seem to be much evidence of it. Still as regressive and chock full of fundies as always

For example, here's a portion of last night's email to her:

Further study...

In response to this: http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/07/03/2...dy-of.html

Even if nations manage to mitigate carbon emission levels, oceans will continue to rise throughout 21st century

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/07/02-1

Just reading your local paper to check on the heatwave there- and wow. Even I was gobsmacked.

Let's see- unrestrained fracking, overturning racial justice laws- slashing education. Last time I had a look, many months ago- they were going after successful community broadband (whereas we're building a world class national high speed broadband system reaching every rural area here).

WTF?

[Andrea]

I don't have relatives in the south, but I do know lots of people from the south through Old Elm. I've got to say they are caring, kind, progressive people. I just had to mention this.

[Bryn]

I am 5th generation Southerner. We got here as a result of Highland Clearances, forced off Scotland & put on America bound ships. Docked at North Carolina before we spread to Georgia, Florida, Mississippi, South Carolina ...

Many of people who were forced off Scotland ended up in the mountains, became hillbillies. My ancestors started farms for cattle and grew veggies, did not own plantations/slaves.

Who were those plantation owners in 18th-19th century? They came from the European aristocracy. They only "owned" the land in the sense that their royal cronies gave them permission to take it. Now Southerners like me/my ancestors get blamed.

We, too, get blamed for those dirty carpetbaggers from the North that came right after Civil War to steal to enrich themselves. Later on they (like Trump) started to ruin beautiful Florida by grabbing up lands, built beehives along the coast for the rich. They spread bad politics. Fox News/other Media helped. How about Rick Scott, governor of Florida? What a jerk! He's from the North. We're calling him the carpetbagger. I loved Bob Graham, our past governor, a true Southerner/Floridian like me, and a liberal, too.

We do have Southern idiots granted, but we also have many, many great Southerners who are progressive. I have two big dogs that I keep in my house as well as my 9 cats. My cats are allowed to go outside, but they're inside before dark. There are plenty of us who love animals.

I have Arkansas Group on facebook. Over 300 people who are wonderful and progressive. I am a native of Florida, but moved to Arkansas in 2006 when I took an early retirement.

on edit: I found this:

Why did plantation owners turn to enslaved Africans as a labor force?

Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

Quote:Despite the racist comments before, it was acceptable at the time. The English and French had been using them in the Caribbean for a century before they were first brought to the Continent. THey were cheap, they did a lot of work without a major investment. The sick plantation owners, as one racist on here put it, were mainly English or New Englanders who owned the mills.

The mill owners sent rum to Africa to trade chieftains for their people and slaves that they owned. (How sick is that, selling your own people?) they were brought to the Caribbean where they harvested sugar cane which was sent to New England (northerners) to made into rum, this was called the triangular trade.

What has never been exposed by people who yell racism, is the overseers on the plantations were Africans. They were more cruel to their own people then the owners. AFter all, an owner had a monetary investment in the slaves, why would they abuse an investment.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?...400AAU85oj

So maybe good smart people will start to stop blaming the South of today.

[Andrea]

(07-04-2012 01:14 AM)Bryn Wrote:  I am 5th generation Southerner. We got here as a result of Highland Clearances, forced off Scotland & put on America bound ships. Docked at North Carolina before we spread to Georgia, Florida, Mississippi, South Carolina ...

Many of people who were forced off Scotland ended up in the mountains, became hillbillies. My ancestors started farms for cattle and grew veggies, did not own plantations/slaves.

Who were those plantation owners in 18th-19th century? They came from the European aristocracy. They only "owned" the land in the sense that their royal cronies gave them permission to take it. Now Southerners like me/my ancestors get blamed.

We, too, get blamed for those dirty carpetbaggers from the North that came right after Civil War to grab up lands. Later on they (like Trump) started to ruin beautiful Florida by grabbing up lands, built beehives along the coast for the rich. They spread bad politics. Fox News/other Media helped. How about Rick Scott, governor of Florida? What a jerk! He's from the North. We're calling him the carpetbagger. I loved Bob Graham, our past governor, a true Southerner/Floridian like me, and a liberal, too.

We do have Southern idiots granted, but we also have many, many great Southerners who are progressive. I have two big dogs that I keep in my house as well as my 9 cats. My cats are allowed to go outside, but they're inside before dark. There are plenty of us who love animals.

I have Arkansas Group on facebook. Over 300 people who are wonderful and progressive. I am a native of Florida, but moved to Arkansas in 2006 when I took an early retirement.

Bryn, I didn't know you had Scottish ancestors. I do too! I have a lot of different nationalities in my background, but Scottish is the largest part along with English, Welsh, Irish, French, Belgian, German and Cherokee. I don't often run into another Scot.

[Bryn]

Hail, Andrea the Scot I just edited my post to add more info. On my Dad's side from his father I do have English. My background is very strongly Scottish like 3/4!

[Andrea]

Now that I've read the article, I would really urge people to read it, especially if they are from the south. I don't know if I agree with it yet. I need to think it over a bit, but I certainly found it interesting. The author tracks the current right-wing politics to the greed of the plantation owners, not the regular people in the south. The puzzle, as always, is why the people adopt the views of the elite. Why would regular southerners adopt the politics of the plantation owners when they were oppressed by them? I read the book What's the Matter with Kansas? a while back. I need to read it again maybe. It's stupefying to think of all the people who vote against their own best interests. Anyway, I would say read this article and give us your opinions on the theory.

[cornermouse]

Just a thought. While doing family genealogy you find things like southeners (Texans in my family) who were actually Pennsylvanians, Californians who were born in New York and Michigan, a post-Civil War carpetbagger who moved into the middle of Bushwhacker territory where a lot of people were murdered and married the sister of a Confederate soldier. Slave owners? I don't know but the likeliest suspects for that would be the Pennsylvanians who moved to Texas. Slavery is a horror in it's own class but so is hanging children for stealing food as they did in Charles Dickens time. There's been a lot of evil done for money.

I like to listen to people's accents when they talk. I love to listen to a southerner talk. Given a choice between a New England accent and a southern accent, I'd take the southern accent every time.

Today's New England-my son went there to work for a couple of weeks, came back and told me they were pushy, aggressive, and rude. Just pointing out that no one has a lock on perfection.